The Truth About the McDonalds Coffee Case

Perhaps the most well-known "frivolous lawsuit" is the story of Stella Liebeck - the woman who was burned by hot coffee from McDonalds. Here are the facts about the McDonald's lawsuit; decide for yourself if the suit was frivolous:

1: Stella Liebeck was a 79-year-old grandmother who was the passenger in her grandson's car.

2: McDonalds served the coffee at roughly 190 degrees. 190 Degree liquid will cause third-degree burns within 2-7 seconds of contact with the skin.

3: Stella was wearing cotton jogging pants, and the 190 degree liquid soaked into the pants. She received third-degree burns to her thighs and genitals. This is what a third-degree burn looks like:

4: McDonalds admitted that the coffee was not fit for human consumption at the temperature they served it.

5: Over 700 men, women, and children had been burned prior to Stella's lawsuit.

6: Stella offered to settle with McDonalds just for her medical bills. They refused.

Here is a PDF file that explains the suit in better detail. It's authored by the attorney who won the case. I tried to get permission from him to post this, but he never responded to my e-mails. This didn't surprise me: No one I've ever contacted about tort reform has bothered to respond to my e-mails.

Hopefully, this clears up some of the misconceptions that Stella was a careless woman who spilled some hot coffee on herself and just needed some aloe vera.

The question I have is why didn't the media report about how badly burned and disabled she was? I wonder if it has anything to do with the tens of millions of dollars McDonalds spends on advertising?

Comments

[E. N. Walters, Esq.]

One thing that I don't understand is that the conservatives are arguing for tort reform, while on the same hand they are supposedly the party that champions State's rights... where are the cries of Federalism? Last time I checked 95%+ tort cases were State in origin, why in the hell does the Federal government have any right to tell my State what to do. If West Virginia has a problem keeping OB/GYNs (which I think is propaganda by the way) it is West Virginia's issue to solve. It is amazing about the inconsistencies about the Republican/Conservatives on the issues of State's rights. Be consistent.

[Byron]

I think the woman should have took the whole $500,000. Basically if she took that little amound of money she deserved what happened. But she was right for doing what she did.

[James]

I was just trying to look up bad facts about McDonalds...but WOW! This is HORRIBLE! Just from coffee too... Mcdonalds should pay those medical bills a least... geez....

[Connor]

i am a 7th grade student doing my speech on how bad McDonalds is and this is for sure going in ( that stupid f**king place should have payed for her medical bills!)

[Oliver]

The same burns can happen when spilling hot liquid at home. A car is not precisely the safest environment to consume hot drinks in, and a high temperature of water is required for optimum extraction of flavors from the coffee grind. Why did no one ask to have a chunk of ice dropped into the coffee? Why did no one blow over the surface to cool down the coffee? The article on the one hand suggests the claim of 700 cases in 10 years to be trivial is facetious, on the other hand it cites one billion cups being sold per year. That's 10 billion in ten years. That's one in over 14000 sales resulting in an accident or 0.007%. That's not trivial? Her sitting in that car put her in more danger than that coffee.

When we brew coffee at home, we are sane enough to wait a moment before we sip it. At McDonalds, people also buy coffee to take it across the street, into the building, up to the tenth floor, down the corridor, into their office and then, at their desk, want to drink it. They're glad if it is still hot by then.

[Mark Tisch]

First of all, I question whether Stella's burns were anywhere near as bad as those in your "example" pic.

Secondly, even IF McDonalds was found to be at fault (which I disagree with), one woman and one greedy attorney were not entitled to millions of dollars. We DO need tort reform. If big corporations are found to be guilty of something, and large settlements are decided on, the money should go to society as a whole, or to a charity, or to some other large number of rightful recipients (such as in a class action). And attorney fees should be limited. Only then will we deter greedy (especially the slimy personal injury variety) from chasing cases like this.

[Ted]

* 1: Stella Liebeck was a 79-year-old grandmother who was the passenger in her grandson's car.

A: Why is this relevant? Do 79-year-old grandmothers get a different standard of justice?

* 2: McDonalds served the coffee at roughly 190 degrees. 190 Degree liquid will cause third-degree burns within 2-7 seconds of contact with the skin.

* 3: Stella was wearing cotton jogging pants, and the 190 degree liquid soaked into the pants. She received third-degree burns to her thighs and genitals.

A: Yes. Coffee is hot. This is the temperature it is supposed to be served at. (Do you really drink your coffee at 130 degrees, the temperature when it won't burn?) This is why someone drinking coffee should be careful not to spill it on themselves.

It's interesting that you mention the cotton sweatpants -- why is McDonald's any more at fault than the pants manufacturer? After all, hundreds of people have burned themselves because they were wearing cotton instead of a more protective material like Goretex. What's the difference?

* 4: McDonalds admitted that the coffee was not fit for human consumption at the temperature they served it.

A: This is irrelevant. Coffee is supposed to be served hotter than it is consumed, because the act ofng the cup cools the temperature several degrees.

* 5: Over 700 men, women, and children had been burned prior to Stella's lawsuit.

A: So what? First, the vast majority of these burns were mild. Second, McDonald's sold several billion cups of coffee--1 in 24 million people suffered any kind of burn at all. That doesn't sound very dangerous to me--after all, one is dozens of times more likely to be hit by lightning, or killed in an auto accident driving to McDonald's.

* 6: Stella offered to settle with McDonalds just for her medical bills. They refused.

A: So what? Why should McDonald's pay anything when it wasn't their fault that Stella spilled coffee on herself? Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

Q: The question I have is why didn't the media report about how badly burned and disabled she was?

A: Because it wasn't McDonald's fault how badly burned she was? In any event, the Wall Street Journal reported on the case in detail--or are they not the media?

Q: Hopefully, this clears up some of the misconceptions that Stella was a careless woman who spilled some hot coffee on herself

A: Really? What evidence do you have that this isn't an accurate evaluation? Certainly nothing in your post. After all, 23,999,999 out of 24,000,000 million people drink McDonald's coffee without burning themselves. (Indeed, an even smaller number than 700 people were victims of self-inflicted burns. McDonald's paid the medical bills of people injured by coffee when it was a McDonald's employee who spilled the coffee.)

More on the McDonald's coffee case on the website overlawyered.com.

[mcdonalds manager]

why should mcdonalds pay up for that womans accident she spilt the coffee mcdonalds should sue her for harassment she is probabily just making it up any way to buy a new walking stick. who does she think she is. god may you have mercy on her sole that little old lier shame one her. how dare she sue my company it is not a very nice thing to do sueing people, you have to go to court and sit in front of pervy judges.

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[i like chips]

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[K]

You people who claim that Stella spilt it on herself - read the case before you start spewing! She didn't spill it. McDonald's had been fined for continually serving coffee at a temperature higher than legally allowed. Styrofoam melts at 190 degrees! The cup melted in her lap and there was nothing she could do about it!

Why did McDonald's continue to serve coffee at a temperature in excess of legal limits? Because McDonald's research show that the aroma of coffee travels further when it is at 190 degrees. The further the aroma travels the more coffee they sell.

[Ted]

KI, you haven't "read the case", because it's a jury verdict, not an opinion.

Styrofoam doesn't melt at 190 degrees. That's why only 1 out of 24 million McDonald's customers burned themselves on coffee. Not even the plaintiffs claim anything other than that Liebeck spilled the coffee on herself.

McDonald's brews coffee at 190 degrees because coffee is supposed to be brewed between 190 and 205 degrees.

[Ted Frank]

McDonald's coffee on Overlawyered:

http://www.pointoflaw.com/archives/000152.php
http://www.overlawyered.com/archives/001394.html
http://www.overlawyered.com/archives/001397.html
http://www.overlawyered.com/archives/02/mar3.html#0329a
http://www.overlawyered.com/archives/00july2.html#000718b

[Theresa]

At some point people are going to have to take responsibility for their own actions. The burn was severe no one disputes that, but what was she doing at the time of the spill? It is a no brainer that coffee is hot. An accident doesn't mean someone should have to pay....take responsibility people who knows you might be sued next, better serve warm coffee and not take the chance.

[Kristen]

WOW!!!! I haven't seen this picture. That is so sad. I am doing a science project about coffee and scald burns. The McDonalds case was one of my top sources. I also looked at Starbucks, I inter viewed the manager:

Q:How much do you fill up the cup?

A:"About 1/4 inch from the top."

Q: What temperature do you serve your coffee?

A: "Oh, about 160-170 degrees farenheight."

If they can serve it at 170 degrees farenheight to a customer. The same results can happen. It just takes a little longer to get a 3rd degree burn from the spill.

And to another note, It was Stella's fault that she was carring it in between her legs. The outside of the cup cant total block the temperature. She probally could have felt the warm in between her legs. That is just not paying attention.

[Alan]

you know, im a grade 7th doing a debate wether or not to ban mcdonalds. This info is perfect! But i still wonder why they sold that hot of coffee when they could be sued if those people accidently spilled it.

[josh]

ok,

although I agree with most of you, but take a look at the case info. The jury did dock her 20k for her own negligence. Macdonalds admitted they knew about previous burn cases and just about everything else yet they did nothing to stop it. The damages awarded were punitive to keep macdonalds from burning people again.

as far as starbucks, I think 170 degrees will burn and fast. But maybe the margin of error is sufficient to provide relief in the case of a spill. 190 degrees will burn on contact (1-2 seconds) so that provides no margin of error. I think she should have recieved all the settlement she was awarded for the simple fact that macdonalds should have forseen this incident..especially after other people burned themselves. Juries look at facts, the facts in the case are pretty evident. I would have come to the same conclusion they did

[jen]

she probly didnt know it was that hot we need to have grace on older people ! did it even say it was that it was really hot or 190 degrees?you guys should be nice not making fun of her or saying she did it for money or other stuff. its like making fun of your grandma or mom

[Chris]

This case is crazy. Did you know that Mcdonalds had received 141 citations before this case because of having water that exceeded regulations. They said that one of their biggest target audiences was truck drivers. Truck drivers want coffee insanely hot so it will stay hot longer on drives. I guess when you weigh sales w/ punitive damages though, they aren't gonna be serving any more 190 degree coffees.

I am doing REPORT ON mCdONlds, this reLLY HELP, THnx

[christina ross]

mc donalds .... tell me have any of you NOT seen a mc donalds ad in your life? this company is corrupt their advertising themselves EVERYWHERE i mean they signed an advertising deal with neopets as soon as neopets reached over 1 million users ( my username happens to be slovakutoo by the way) and this sucks!! i could ignore the fat content but the working conditions!!!!!
im not allowed mc donalds ever since my dad read Fast food nation and im glad!!!

[jukes]

ello , im doing school power point project this site really helped thx :)

[Andrew Axsom]

Guys, Read the facts that were posted. Now re-read them.

The Bottle line here is the same as the bottomline with smokers suing since they get lung cancer.

Mcdonalds sold Mrs. Liebeck a product. It was her responsibility to use judgement in deciding how to use that product. Mcdonalds was NOT responsible for how she used her property. She having already paid for it - it was her property.

She spilled it. That, my friends, is the bottomline.

[Ted]

"Did you know that Mcdonalds had received 141 citations before this case because of having water that exceeded regulations?"

No, I didn'tbecause it's not true. There are no "regulations" regarding hot water.

[Justinian Lane]

Actually, I managed a cafe for a couple of months, and there are some sort of regulations for water temperature. The health department comes out with a thermometer and inspects the temperature of the water from your faucets, in your dishwasher, etc. Granted, that's a county or city level thing, but there is some regulation to water temperature.

[Justinian Lane]

Actually, I managed a cafe for a couple of months, and there are some sort of regulations for water temperature. The health department comes out with a thermometer and inspects the temperature of the water from your faucets, in your dishwasher, etc. Granted, that's a county or city level thing, but there is some regulation to water temperature.

[Josh]

How insanely stupid. Whatever happened to common sense and personal responsibility? It's like suing a parking lot's manager coz you got struck by lightning while trying to get into your car. It's just fuggin' ludicrous!

[Ted]

Justinian, don't be disingenuous. A health-code regulation requiring that dishwashing water be above a certain temperature has nothing to do with the commenter's false claim that there was a different regulation requiring coffee to be cold that McDonald's violated.

[Danny Spooner]

it may seem a bit hot but if your travelling long distances to get home from macdonalds it would stay warm n for a start who drinks red-hot coffee in a car! dumbasses!

[Tbear]

1.) It's McDonald's. NOT MacDonald's. I know, some of you will think that's trivial. Oh well, it's just my pet peeve.
2.) If you don't have a cup holder, I can think of two other alternatives. Hold the cup in your hand or put it on the floor between your feet. (Obviously, NOT if you're driving!)
3.) I have never had coffee (restaurant or home) that has been cool enough to drink immediately. I doubt that Ms. Liebeck has either. Therefore, she should have known that this, too, would be hot. I wouldn't stick a hot curling iron between my legs, nor would I put a FLEXIBLE foam coffee cup full of hot coffee there. Have I ever burned myself? Yup. You know why? Because I was careless! Whether it was the oven, waffle maker, curling iron or spattered grease, it was MY fault; not GE's, West Bend's, Clairol's or Wesson's.
Just my two cents...

[Many of you are dumbasses]

Grow up.

water can only go to 100 degrese idot

[minidrags]

I can't beleive how hot they serve coffee!
190 degrees!
I think all mcdonalds should be blown up and stuffed onto a suitcase. Then it should be sucked into a black hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooole.

[fedup]

OK - I am fed up with all of the disinformation about this case. The real bottom line is that McDonald's kept their coffee at such a high temperature because it allowed them to keep the coffee "fresher" tasting longer - eliminating waste and cost from dumping "old" coffee. This saved them money. However - they were knowingly serving a product that could cause severe burns. The money was awarded to Stella by a jury of her peers, who decided that McD's was responsible. And the money they gave her? Equal to an average of two day's coffee profits for McD's... That is what I think is disgusting. They make over a million dollars a day off coffee, yet they couldn't afford to keep it at a safe teperature. Suppose the drive through worker had spilled it onto a driver's face? What would you all be saying now?

[Nelson]

1) The effort to encourage Americans to distrust jury trials and a democratically-accountable public court system (however imperfect) in favor of the unresponsive power of corporations is simply disgusting and unpatriotic.

2) Restricting the rights of Americans to seek justice through the republic's institutions so that McDonalds' et al. can protect their profits (their existence isn't threatened by a long shot), since it sabotages our American way of life, stinks of treason against the republic.

[JT]

This is ridiculous. I work at McDonalds and i'm sure as an almost 80 year old woman she is frail as hell. Maybe if her grandson grabbed the coffee and put it in a holder she would not have had this mistake. I see numerous people DAILY who grab cups by the TOP and we tell them not to, have common sense. Do not EAT AND DRINK while driving either. If she was intelligent enough to touch the coffee and realize it was hot, immediately put it down. Yes, the bills should have been paid...sure...but christ...

[Ted]

If the drive-through worker spilled coffee on Liebeck's face, then he'd be guilty of negligence, and McDonald's would be liable under principles of respondeat superior. That doesn't require McDonald's to be held liable for a customer's own negligence.

I refuted Justinian a long time ago. Why he's still selling the McDonald's coffee case as a story shows the dishonesty of the opposition to tort reform.

More: http://www.overlawyered.com/2005/10/urban_legends_and_stella_liebe.html

[Rob]

I have actually read all about this case, there were no cup holders in the car, she only wanted mcdonalds to pay for the trip to the hospital costs, mcd's refused to pay more than $800 so she sued, they finally settled for less than what the court ordered which only wound up to be around 1 million, besides her over 700 people also had reported 3rd degree burns, even mcd's says that the coffee was too hot

[cant say]

i think thats arfull i feel so sorry for the people that got burned

[yea]

some one got burnt now get over it ok!!!

[Adam]

Critics are blind to the basic notion of our system of law. Noneconomic damages pay for attorney's fees. The plaintiff's attorney is the only person that stands for their right not to be harmed by the negligence of a large financially and politically protected corporation, or insurance company. There is no statutory relief or protection for victim if there is no way to pay for the case. Limiting rewards to medical bills is a clear message that the government has been bought by commercial interest. If a plaintiffs lawyer cannot afford to bring a case because of extensive medical bills we've defeated any hope for justice for those who are the most injured by a faulty system. Our only alternative is to award seperate lawyer's fees as is done in Britain. The system will simply break down if we can't afford to protect the most injured. For example, an individual w/ $250,000 worth of medical bills (a serious injury costs apx. 40,000 per day in hospital costs) a $250,000 judgement (Tx. cap) would not even cover her medical bills b/c the attorney handling the case must pay for it by charging 40%. Britian's system is far more transparent and honest. Instead of asking juries for pain and suffering, we should simply force the loosing party to pay for the plaintiff's fees. This would also reduce the chances of large rewards which are always reduced on appeal anyway.

[aniq]

hey just a suggestion, I hope Mcdonalds should consider this, instead of putting, "CAUTION: HOT!" why not put, ATTENTION: This is 190 degress, can you handle it? just a suggestion. Peace!!

[Idril]

The fact is..it happened. Stella was burned. Sometimes these things happen and no amount of prevention can stop them from doing so. Every person in this world says it was Stella's fault, until they do something stupid and the tables are turned. Walk a mile, think about it. We live in a world of accidents, usually unexpected ones. WE ARE VERY CLOSE MINDED. So McDonald's should warn their customers a little better than they were. You cannot just ASSume that every single person will not spill it. It's always a possibility. With a better warning, the customer would have been significantly more at fault; the argument for them could have been stronger. But that wasn't the case, so they should have handed over the loot. They're loaded anywho.

hmmmmmmmmm........... whod of thought that coffee would be served hot! unless ofcourse you bought a frappuccino you dumb shit!!!

[annonamus]

they knew it was obviously hot , they are so stupid, there should of beebn no lawsuit.

[John]

thats a stupid case against mcdonalds wut would people do if the mcdonalds coffee was warm they wouldnt go back same with all the food mcdonalds serves come on people everyone knows coffee is hot all you have to do is say "can you throw a couple of ice cubes in that for me" wow that was hard

[Ingabore]

Nelson your a f*cking Idiot Thats why you work at McDonalds... Why dont you get the facts before flopping your dumbass lips... the car wasnt moving.. and she was not driving... maybe instead of becoming McDonalds Manager... you should go to school and learn something!!!!!

[steve]

um, aren't third degree burns white or black? and if she actually had a third degree burn she wouldn't have felt any pain because her nerves would be burned off instantly.

[steve]

also how did they know how hot the coffee was? was she waiting there with a thermometer?

[Ray]

It is easy for the corporate individuals responding so far to blame the elderly woman b/c they were not the ones burned so badly. If it was too hot like McDonads admitted, then why didn't they just cool it down a little. Remember, there was not a lawyer sitting on that jury, it was 12 individuals, (doctors, business men/women etc) that heard all of the facts and made a decision. Don't judge unless it happens to you or you have heard all of he facts. I agree with Mark Tisch, "Whatever happened to personal responsibility?". That is why tort reform is wrong!

[Bill]

The McDonalds case was not the least bit frivelous. Yes, we all coffee is "hot." But, like anything else, it is a matter of degree. There are reasonable limits to how "hot" a cup of coffee should be.

Personally, I have been a coffee drinker most of my life, and I have spilled coffee on myself on many occasions. Never once have I gotten third degree burns from spilling coffee -- coffee simply isn't that hot. Think about it: Any coffee that is hot enough to char every layer a person's skin all the way through to the muscles/bones is hot enough to burn the tounge and mouth when one attempts to drink it. In other words, it is so hot as to render it useless for its intended purpose (drinking). Assuming for the sake of argument that a person who buys a cup of coffee should be expected to assume a certain level of risk, she should only be expected to assume the risks normally associated with a reasonable cup of coffee.

By the way, some of the "tort reform" advocates have claimed (in McDonalds' defense) that the National Coffee Association reccomends that coffee be served at 190 degrees. This is misleading. The National Coffee Association reccomends that coffee be BREWED at 195 - 205, meaning that that is the temperature the water should be at the time if runs through the grounds. It also reccomends that "If it will be a few minutes before it will be served, the temperature should be maintained at 180 - 185 degrees Fahrenheit." That does NOT mean that it should be SERVED at that temperature -- it means it should be STORED at that temperature once it is brewed. Coffee should be SERVED at no more than 155 degrees, since any liquid above 140 degrees is unfit for consumption. Presumably, in the "few minutes" it takes to serve the coffee, the 180 degree coffee will have cooled down to a more reasonable temperature.

See http://www.ncausa.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=71

[Gina]

I found all these comments very interesting. My son was burned by a cup of Dunkin Donuts coffee last week. Yes, we knew the coffee was hot but it was an accident. His entire thigh looks like that picture above. He is being treated at a burn center. I found out that Dunkin Donuts serves their coffee at 200 degrees. I was so angry. I knew it was hot but I can tell you I did not know it could do that to a childs skin.I saw that several of you mentioned a regulation that restaurants need to follow. Is there one? Where can I read about it? I'm not interested in getting money that is not mine to have. I am interested in seeing a safe temperature instituted so people will not be hurt. I love coffee as much as the next person if not more but you don't know how quickly an accident can happen.

[Jane]

I found this horrifying, I am doing a speec h on Mcdonalds and obesity..can any of you please suggest any good websites where I can find obesity facts??

[Matt Kramer]

Yo Holmes, i need to know about if da coffY was tasty G

[Matt Kramer]

Yo Holmes, i need to know about if da coffY was tasty G